Group Read: Dreamlands

[Nathan]

Who's gonna get this thing going?

If everyone's still too shy by this evening, I'll get my post up. tongue.gif

[Nathan]

Well, another 'Group Read' book complete, but it seems it's just the beginning for our daring heroes. No need, ladies and gentlemen, to come up with a post as long as this. I am simply the facilitator of these little group readings and so feel I should take the time to respond as thoroughly as possible. It matters not how long your post is or even if you post at all. Just enjoy the books...and my rambling too if you'd like. :D
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Three more books to go and countless dangerous adventures for Hero and Eldin to miraculously complete, mainly unscathed. I love the almost superhuman heroics of this book. One quest never seeming to complete their overall purpose, but always leading to yet another more terrifying adventure to overcome. And somehow, although our boys come out on top at every turn, they somehow manage to end up right back where they started; penniless and fleeing for their lives...the Robin Hood feel of the story always apparent.

I must admit that when I first read these, a lot of the stories told by the people (?) they meet along the way went right over my head. The references to the Primal Lands, Crow and deMariginy, Cthulhu, Yibb-Tstll, etc. All part of the story, but gibberish to me back then. It's been that much more enjoyable this time thanks to knowledge gained from the reading of the various other books and stories. Even some of the short stories I've read recently give insight into some of the inspiration behind the characters of the Dreamlands.

Not only inspiration from His own earlier works, but also from the works of others...obviously, H.P. Lovecraft, (duh! He's even mentioned!) but also there seems to be some LOTR inspired elements here. Nyrass the wizard for instance. Much like Gandalplh but not as grumpy. And the Great Tree had just a little in common with Treebeard, did he not? The afore-mentioned Robin Hood is also an obvious comparison. But our boys take it up quite a few notches with the action, I'd say! Ol' Robin and Little John had little else but swords and arrows and nooses (neese?) to worry their hides! The Sherriff of Nottingham would stand absolutely no chance against Hero and Eldin.

There was also a bit of Indiana Jones mixed in here. All I could picture when they were in the Keep was that first cave where Indy gets the golden statue at the beginning. Very similar. You think some of you (dirty, rotten, stinking, lucky mothers) could ask Brian about all the things that inspired these works when you see him at KeoghCon and let me know? smile.gif

A couple more things I noticed...connections and the like:

--Dalkieth Road...Also where Rodney and Angela Denholm from HOD kept a flat. Think they knew Hero? Or is it a pretty big road?

--Ki-no Sung lost his face. I wonder if that was inspired by night-gaunts and their Lord, Yibb-Tstll...?

--Was there not a dragon that befriended deMariginy who spoke with a lisp? I was LMAO when I came to the name "Thinister Udd." It made me wonder if his name was actually "Sinister!" LOL! :D

--"Eyeing and sighing..." A clever and gentlemanly way of reffering to sex. I liked it. smile.gif

--I love how BL can descibe a person and sum them up in such short sentences. Here's one such that I liked regarding our questers spirit and loyalty to goodness...the Great Tree has begun to tell his worrying tale...

Hero sat, but the muscles jumped in his face and his agitation--that of his companions too--was an almost tangible force in the forest-gloomy air.
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The Second Worst Fate I've Read About in a BL Book...

At the subtle and practiced urging of the naked hand-maidens a long slit had appeared in the leathery surface of the vast sausage-shape. And now it seemed to pulse, that gash, and in a monstrous spasm it opened wider still.

...as the Ter-men placed the head of their luckless fellow in the pulsing gash and pushed and shoved until he had fully entered the cylinder..."

If you read the book, you'll understand just how disgusting a place that gash was!! :eek:

Hero and Eldin are a couple of cards, aren't they? Constantly antagonizing each other and basically puffing up their own egos to out do the other. They are a very entertaining pair, even without their adventures!

One thing I'd not remembered from my first reading of these was the fact that Eldin was engaged to be married! Even when I came to the introduction of Aminza I didn't remember her at all! Apparently she is gone from the Dreamlands now, but why was Eldin fleeing the city to catch up with Hero? I still can't recall.

Oh well...on to Ship of Dreams. smile.gif

<FONT COLOR="#660000" SIZE="1">[ 08-20-2001 02:42 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Nathan ]</font>

[Ema]

Heh heh, well, you know me Nathan... I like to wait until others post so I can get my brain jump-started.. lol

Anyhoo, not even going to try and top what you wrote..AGAIN! :-Þ But you do seem to catch all the little spots though.

I do like the fact that Brian does seem to enjoy writing about dreams. Although I haven't the pleasure of meeting Titus & deMariginy, there are a few of his books that deal or have effects of dreams;

Harry... when Harry jr took away his ability to speak to the dead, and the only way he could speak to them was through his dreams.

HOD's & MOW's... the dreams/fears that they had to go through to pass the test of 'If They Are Worthy... They Shall Live'

I'm sure there are more too... just haven't read all of his books yet!

And now, this concept of the 'Dreamlands', really, what a wonderful place! Sure there are characters who you wouldn't want to meet up, although after reading the books.. the night-gaunts are kinda cute! :) But visiting a few of the people... don't light that smoke if you visit the Termen... or you won't have a bed to lie on! And come to think of it... don't light up when visiting the dead-ones either (argh.. should have brought the book for the names which are escaping me!) can you imagine being Hero & Eldin after breaking through the earth and climbing out into that stench? Ugh!

Hmm.. going to Aminza, wasn't the town & her family after Eldin... thinking he had done something to her since she had disappeared?

Thats another thing too... this time the 'Pretty One' didn't get the girl! :) I was very surprised that I enjoyed these three books as much as I did, of course I knew I would like them, but this is a first in a long time that I have read a series (albeit only the first 3) that I have gone straight back to the first one to re-read. Very fun!

Oh, I know I'm jumping ahead, but was wondering about the thoughts of others on this... being in the Dreamlands... would you actually die? Noticed that in the books, that part of the subject never really came up. For instance... someone saying "Oh, btw.. make sure you don't get killed, or you will never get back to the Waking World", etc.

Mainly curious because of Old Wives Tales that I have heard over the years of "If you die in your dreams, then you will never wake up". Umm.. ok, lost where I was going with this.. :-D

Great book, and so glad that the Dreamlands aren't based on the type of dreams I have.. oie.. Has had some doozies believe me...

[ShadoeWolfe]

I had forgotten how good the Dreamlands books were! smile.gif The best thing about them - at least in Hero, is how quickly the story moves along and how fast the book reads. Yet so much happens in such little time....the book is like a dream....

Should the Titus Crow stories have been read first? Possibly, but the names and places fill themselves in when you read or reread either series in either order. It is amazing the way Brian ties in all the genres and sub-genres into one complete story.

I too had forgotten about Aminza while re-reading, and can't remember if it is talked about later in the series - in the epilogue, she recovers from her injuries and comes to - so possibly she vanished from the Dreamlands - so what was there to keep Eldin in Ilek-Vad? With his love gone (and did he really love her?) why not keep adventuring with Hero? An adventurer is soon to be bored just sitting around with people bending over backwards for him...

Now for the speculation...is there one set Dreamland we all go to - but cannot remember? Most of our dreams that are remembered contain people or places - if not directly out of our lives, very similar, so who is to say that parallel universe does not exist? And would we all meet up somewhere in dreams if we knew how to go there for a longer period of time - but even if so - would we recognize each other...?

Just some thoughts trapesing through my head while rereading Hero... smile.gif

[VonDarkmoor]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ema:
Noticed that in the books, that part of the subject never really came up. For instance... someone saying "Oh, btw.. make sure you don't get killed, or you will never get back to the Waking World", etc.

Mainly curious because of Old Wives Tales that I have heard over the years of "If you die in your dreams, then you will never wake up". Umm.. ok, lost where I was going with this.. :-D
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

doesnt this get loosly covered? i see it as a kind of matrix similarity, if you die in your dreams (i.e. mind dies) your bodys dies in the real world as it cant continue with out its mind?

[Ema]

Hmm.. have to disagree there Erik, and I know mind blanks come quite often for me, but I don't remember reading about someone from the 'Waking World' ever being said to be dead in the Dreamlands, maybe missing, or off on some other adventure in another part of the Dreamlands or whatever.

And it seems to me, that (wracking brain now too) that what happens at the end of book 3, makes my point. For all purposes... wasn't that a 'death'? Maybe I'm wrong, will have to check when I get home, but my thoughts on that was if it was possible, wouldn't it perhaps have been mentioned? And this is a Dreamland too, and also, when someone dies in the Waking World, why wouldn't they also die in the Dreamlands? Tit for Tat...

:-D

[Nathan]

Ahh...good posts! smile.gif

Ema--Night-gaunts...cute? You are wacky! Or warped!! :eek:

I can't remember anything about whether or not you die in the waking world if you die in the Dreamlands. It doesn't mention anything in the first book, at least, but apparently Hero and Eldin are already dead in the waking world...which is another thing I had forgotten. For some reasopn I thought they'd just been put in a coma. I guess you could say that the Dreamlands is their afterlife...Heaven? Well, they certainly seem to enjoy themselves!

Shadoe--As far as "one set Dreamland we all go to"...The only thing I saw on that was that most people don't really ever get to a Dreamland state persay, but simply fall asleep and let their subconscious take over with their simple dreams and fantasies. But there are the few (such as Hero and Eldin) who are able to, whether intentionally or not, fall into such a deep sleep that they find themselves in the actual "Dreamlands."

In other words...I got the sense that there is a set Dreamlands and only those capable of that very deep sleep may get there.

...but then again...the Dreamlands were created by such dreamers! So could it not be said that anyone capable of getting there is also helping to create further parts to the whole?

Oh yeah...a lot of this book is open to speculation...which makes it perfect for discussion! smile.gif

And what you said about the fast pace of the books is right on the money! I hadn't thought of it that way! I was just thinking it was a fast and furious adventure, but you're right...it is like a dream! smile.gif

Both of you and anyone else listening--I have read on a little, and it seems you do simply disappear from the Dreamlands when you wake. I guess that answers my question about Aminza! But it seems there should be something else that takes place! One minute she's there and the next...? Seems cruel. But again you're right...Eldin's better off without her. :D

[VonDarkmoor]

been thinking about the death thing during lunchtime. im sure that its mentions in mad moon of dreams, by the king of the floating city. excuse my lack of precise names and locations, i dont have my volumes to hand. i will have a quick scan this evening and see what i can find, then report back.

nathan, i too forgot about the comas. didnt realise they were marooned for eternity in the dream world. lucky buggers!!! i wish i was. smile.gif

[topol_sheap]

totally off topic ;) BUt to reply to shadoe's thoughts about a set dreamland....

when I was a kid I used to share a bedroom with my brother, and we always used to say that we would meet on the tube (kind of like the steps down to the dream land) on the way to the dreamland.... maybe kids have a point, but lovecraft (originator of the dreamlands) maybe managed to hold onto something special...

What do you guys think? am I crazy or just an old romantic ;) or should this be beamed to another topic!!! You ball Nathan!

TOps

<FONT COLOR="#660000" SIZE="1">[ 08-22-2001 04:41 AM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Tops ]</font>

[Ema]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ema:
...when someone dies in the Waking World, why wouldn't they also die in the Dreamlands? Tit for Tat...

:-D<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh ehh, quoting me own self... Sometimes I just have to read what I write, since 9 times out of 10, my fingers have no idea what my brain is thinking... neither do I as a matter of fact...

The 2 Fearless Hero's died in the Waking World... so that blows my wacky theory of Tit for tat...lol

But, thinking about it now... ummm... ok, I still don't remember anything about an actual 'death' by one of the Waking World in the Dreamlands, but too, and I should have realized this (ding ding)... how in the heck would anyone know if they died or not? Seeming that they generally don't remember much when they wake up anyway. So just disregard my previous ramblings..lol

I've just lost myself... if you find me... just return me to the upright position.

coffee....

[Nathan]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tops:
(originator of the dreamlands) maybe managed to hold onto something special...

...and...

You ball Nathan!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Totally fine comment and question for this thread, Tops...ummm...Goatherder. (*Hoping "herding" is all he's doing!*)

It even says in the book (Hero of Dreams) that HPL wrote of his experiences inside his dreams. He even goes on and talks about the other guy...Schrach? I think? Can't remember the first name.

Anyway...yeah, he held onto something. I think BL did too. smile.gif

Did you mean "your" ball? Or "I ball...?" As in...I'm a crybaby? :D

Oh...looked up the name...it's Gerhard.

What'd'you think of the dedication?

"...who will go outside and do it anywhere...?"

BTW VonD...we'll get to those books. smile.gif Don't give anything away yet. smile.gif I've forgotten things. smile.gif

<FONT COLOR="#660000" SIZE="1">[ 08-22-2001 09:39 AM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Nathan ]</font>

[Goth Girl]

Not really much to do with the book, but is to do with dreams!

I love the idea of there being one place where all the dreamers go. I often visit the same places when I dream, but they're usually connected with places that I know (but not, if you know what I mean). So I don't think if I said that a certain place was a mixture of Derby, Cambridge and my old school but set in Sunderland, that many people would know what the hell I'm talking about!! Unless they go to the same place in their dreams but with different place names... and if any of you out there do, you'd better say hello to me next time!

Oh hell, I'm rambling... sorry!

On a separate note, I'm glad that Aminza paired off with Eldin, not David... I'm kinda possessive about Hero... so cute! ;)

[Nathan]

Inspiration from yet another tale of the fantastical springs again into the tale of the Dreamlands. But for the life of me I can't remember the name of that Great Floating City in the Clouds from The Empire Strikes Back! I've seen that movie too many times to be having this three-day-long brain fart! Some help?

Or maybe I have it backwards...? Was Serannian a city already in place from the mind of HPL? And so, possibly the inspiration for the city created by Lucas?

Anyway...Serannian sure seems like the same type of thing to me...except where ?????? floats in space, (somehow defying anti-gravity and the lack of other forces necessary to keep it together) Serannian floats where the sky meets the sea and its method of opperation is fully explained. Now I'm going to be picturing Serannian's inner workings and the Tilt every time I watch Empire. Can you imagine sailing (or flying) far enough where the sea actually meets the sky...or vice-versa? Pretty wild concept to picture...but I guess not in a dream. :D

Remember when you were a kid and the best thing in the world was finding a really steep hill to coast down at a blinding, death defying speed on your bike? Or maybe a sled or skateboard? How cool would it be to just wait for the right time of day, step out your front door, and go zipping across the city with absolutely no effort being put into it at all!? No cars pulling out to watch out for and no nasty hills on the other side to toil back up to the top of. But I'd still want pedals! Faster, faster!! :D Of course I'd end up with probably more broken bones than I got as a kid in the real world, but the thrill was always worth the scapes and cuts and broken bones to me...at least after the innitial pain. :D The Tilt would be :cool:...

Your comment (Shadoe) about these books being told as if the questers are actually dreaming is more and more apparent with each page! From their trial in Celephais, across the Cerenerian Sea to Serannian, only to be enlisted by King Kuranes for a whole new quest! On from there to even more adventures only ever found in dreams. Riding a ship through the air and battling zombie ships also floating through the air. "Walking the plank" out into open air and free-falling (without chutes) miles towards the ground only to be rescued by night-gaunts who's master needs them dead--having really no animosity towards them! Into a volcano, riding the claws of an injured gaunt and through The Peaks of Throk and The Vale of Pnoth where the gaunt met its fate as the...

...snuffling had increased to a sort of frenzied slobbering interspersed with sharp tearing sounds; and now, from afar and from all directions, there came a veritable chorus of minor grunts and snuffles of inquiry."

**SHUDDER!!* Dholes...atrocious!! :eek: (A sort of vampire, I think. Afraid of light...and fatal to them. The same strange type of vampire we saw in A Coven of Vampuires...) Escaping that particular nightmare, they proceed to ride the back of a monstrous thing (dog?) through the underworld, across the Stickistuff Sea, (LOL!!) and up the neverending staircase into where else but...? The Graveyard of Zura! The deadless graveyard! :eek: Then they gotta get outta there and go back to Serannian to fight more zombies for the lives of the city...and the city itself! Even more fun when they're literally shot into the sky from the bowels of Serannian hundreds of feet in the air! Fun, fun!!

Neverending adventures...just like dreams. Nice observation... smile.gif

Now they're penniless again and being chased from Baharna by a group of bounty hunters because of their labidos...and happy about it! :D A coupla wild and crazy guys! :D

A couple of questions and comments

"Kuranes himself was once a waking-worlder, though he had been known by a different name then. Yes, and Randolph Carter too, the King of Ilek-Vad."

--Who are these guys? Is their story told in another tale? What are their real names? Why is it so vague?

--Who is Arthur Eld? He's mentioned not only in the Dreamlands as a man and also some sort of diety, but also is mentioned numerous times in the tale of Mid-World and The Dark Tower by Stephen King.

--The song that Eldin sings for the "running thing" cracked me up... "Git along, liddle dawgee, git arlong--" LOL! Shoulda seen it comin'... :D

--It also cracks me up when Eldin gets pissed off. Cursing everything around him to mask his loathing (and possibly fear? Nah...) of the situation(s).

...and their boasting, swaggering attitudes all the way up until the point where someone is actually going to recognize it. Then going all humble. Typical SuperHeroes... :D

To quote Hero in closing my long-winded book report..."Why--we're going on, of course--we're going on!"

...and so are we...to Mad Moon of Dreams!

[VonDarkmoor]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nathan:
[QB]

"Kuranes himself was once a waking-worlder, though he had been known by a different name then. Yes, and Randolph Carter too, the King of Ilek-Vad."

--Who are these guys? Is their story told in another tale? What are their real names? Why is it so vague?
QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I seem to recall so reference to carter in the Titus Crow books? but tis a while since i read them..

[SpOOkshow]

Sorry to interrupt, ladies and gentlemen smile.gif

But if my Lovecraft serves me well, there is a story entitled 'The Statement of Randolph Carter', and HPL's other dreams stuff 'The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath', 'The Silver Key' and 'Through the Gates of the Silver Key'. Titus Crow and Dreamlands fans should definately take a look.

You might recognize a few names, and a certain coffin shaped clock...

smile.gif

[Nathan]

Cool, SpOOk...thanks for the info. smile.gif

You know anything about Arthur Eld?

[Jason of Khem]

In the tales of the Dreamlands, Randolph Carter is the nom de plume of HP Lovecraft.

Jason

[Nathan]

Time's up!!

Even gave y'all a whole extra day! :D

I've got a few trivial observations marked in the book but nothing written down yet... should get around to it in the morning though.

You said you had some questions, Debs? Lay 'em on me! smile.gif

I've got one of my own... what's a wooly whoofter?

[Nathan]

Okay, here's the context it's in so maybe you can help me out. I have a fairly good idea what Hero means here, but I'm wondering where the expression actually comes from...


Hero drew back his head (as best he could) and spat straight into the Duke's eye. "And you'll be Gathnod-Natz'ill Isharra, " he evenly answered as the other staggered away dabbing at his face. "As woolly a woofter as ever I saw--in dreams or out of 'em!"LOL! Here's something else that Zura said to Hero that struck me funny...


"Your skin shall stretch upon my cabin's wall, marked with all the lands of Earth's dreams--a map of my future conquests. And the skin of your head shall cover a small drum, with your nose at one side so that the drumsticks may be sheathed in your nostrils."You gotta be kiddin' me! Where's he come up with this stuff!?

Anyway, again in this book, (perhaps even more so) Hero and Eldin go from one peril straight to another. It just cracks me up how one minute they're about to be killed be the twins with evil sounding names and then are "saved" by Lathi who also will kill them. Then Zura "saves" them for a death she has planned... and so on and so forth. I didn't even bother to count the times Hero and Eldin were "bundled" here or there to their supposed death! It's pretty predictable after a while, but that somehow doesn't take away from my enjoyment of it...

That's all I have for this one... anyone else have thoughts or shall we move on?

[ShadoeWolfe]

Well - I'm only up to the fight at the moon, but i will chime in. smile.gif (I've been working darnit!)

I agree nate.. Hero and Eldin should have been dead 15 times over in this book - but it sort of reminds you of the ninja scenes in movies... 12 nijas getting ready to atack one guy and instead of all attacking at once, they wait until the other is beaten down to join the battle, then the next one goes, then the next one - why not just kill em! Oh yeah... the book would be over quickly if that were the case. smile.gif

And you're right, it doesn't make it any less enjoyable.. I had forgotten how they and the girls had escaped the lair of Oorn - and I almost felt like cheering when they were picked up by the gaunts in the end - but Hero got a nasty scar from tht acid taste oorn had.. smile.gif

Not to be cheesy - but this is the stuff that dreams are made of! :D

[Nathan]

Shoot, I live for cheese! These books are chock full of cheesiness, so it might as well be included in discussions! :D

Are we ready to move on then? Iced on Aran? Think we can get through it by next Friday?

[Goth Girl]

Nate honey, a woolly woofter is rhyming slang...! Think about it... it's why Hero thought that his girl might be 'safe' with Gathnod-Natz'ill!!

Can't think of my questions... sleep deprivation will do that to a girl...!

[Nathan]

I get that the guy is a bit of a fruit. I just wonder how that particular expression came about? All my ideas disgust me...

Woolly, as in hairy... like, all over hairy? Woofter, as in one who woofts? Is that along the lines of a rogerer? :D

Okay... I should stop now...

[Goth Girl]

I'm all ready for Iced on Aran, but just wanna mention a couple of thoughts that crossed my mind about Oorn and Mnomquah...

She's a gigantic snail... he's an enormous lizard... and they're getting it on, as it were... where in Hell would a couple like that meet? I sure wouldn't want to be on the dance-floor of any night-club where they'd be on the pull...! Or maybe they have the Great Old Ones equivalent of a lonely hearts column? ;)

Also, can anyone imagine what the offspring of that mating would produce? Really doesn't bear thinking about! :eek:

[ March 04, 2002, 09:34 AM: Message edited by: Goth Girl ]

[Nathan]

I don't even like thinking about how they themselves were begat, much less their offspring! What would you call it? A snizzard? Well, it's just a good thing ol' Hero and Eldin were around to put a stop to that unsightly coupling (woofting?)!

:D

[Nathan]

I found these in the "Ganley" section of the site and am hoping to buy them... are these stories found in any compilations?

WEIRDBOOK 27 $6.00 -- "Stealer of Dreams" (a new Hero/Elden novelette)

WEIRDBOOK 26 $6.00 -- "Weird Wines of Naxas Niss" (Hero/Elden)

[Nathan]

No answers there? Oh well...

All done with Iced on Aran? Let's see who's paying attention. I'm feeling like a one man "group" again...

Who can tell me who Zuli Bazooli (LOL!) is and what Eldin likes about him/her?

[Nathan]

Okay, she's a belly dancer and Eldin just loves her "jiggly bits". LOL! smile.gif

I just purchased a few back issues of Weirdbook from Mr. Ganley recently. Two of them include Dreamlands shorts...The Weird Wines of Naxxis Niss and The Stealer of Dreams. Anyone read these?

I read the first one last night. Although it was somewhat amusing, I couldn't help feeling a little let down with our boys. Of course they end up figuring it out and getting the better of Niss eventually. But in the process, they seem a little buffoonish.

Haven't read "Stealer" yet...

[Goth Girl]

Eeeeek! Sorry Nathan luv, I totally missed your question post...no idea how that happened... otherwise i would have answered!

[Nathan]

So have you read them? Or do you mean the other question? The jiggly bits? lol!

Speaking of spin offs..I'm still curious over the whole Curator's Quest question put forth by AlvinFox some months ago...