Riddles to bewilder a Necroscope

[BadMushroom]

Hello Guys,

Haven't been around for a while. Nice to be back from 'me travels abroad.

Anyway, here's a vexy riddle to stump even Harry (if you know the/an answer, and I'm sure some of you do, keep it under your hat for a bit, I'd like to hear other peoples theories).

OK here it goes...

Why is infinity + 1 not equal to 1 + infinity?

'Shroom

[BadMushroom]

Here's another one...

Harry, unable to use his Möbius talents, flys on a plane to Greece. The guy sitting next to Harry leaves a little orange juice in his cup, and places it on the table in front of him.
He turns to Harry and says: "Now I can see by the juice in the cup when the plane banks to make a right or left turn."

"No, you cannot", Harry answers. "Not if the pilot is doing his job properly."

Harry's traveling companion falls asleep, and the plane enters a thick cloud. Then he suddenly wakes up, and wants to know if the plane is in level flight, or in the middle of a turn.

a) Can he find out, by looking at the orange juice in the cup?

Did you answer "no" to the question above? Now, suppose you have an extremely good vision, and you're able to spot the minutest details on any physical object (meaning, in this case, the cup of orange juice).

b) Is the answer still "no"?


Happy riddling!

'Shroom

[DaveStrorm]

<b>BM</b>,

Well, I'm fairly certain I know the first one, so I'll leave it for further discussion. However, I've kind of always wondered about the second one myself. From your description, Harry seems to think you can tell and that should be good enough for me. http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif I'd still like to hear some explanations for it though. All you physicists out there (at least <b>Sikboy</b> comes to mind), let's hear an answer!

[DaveStrorm]

Oops . . . *HTML is OFF. I guess that means HTML is off, huh? http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/wink.gif How about BM and Sikboy?

[BadMushroom]

Dave,

I think I may have confused you slightly... Harry thinks that it's unlikely.

Erm, I guess that gives the answer to riddle away slightly... I'm so crafty I even catch myself out!!! But it dosn't explain the 'how' of it.

Any others with theories???

As an aid to those stumped by the "Infinity riddle"; the following slight clue...

What do you get if you add infinity to 1???

Think about it and extrapolate!!

'Shroom.

PS I've got another great "inponderable", but I won't overload you budding necroscope mathematicians with it..., yet!

[DaveStrorm]

BM,

Your description of Harry's viewpoint was clear. My typing skills, however, are sadly lacking. I actually did understand that Harry believed you could NOT tell, but that's not what I typed! That's why I said that Harry's belief should be good enough for me (since he's the whiz) because I've always thought you should be able to tell. But you hear stories of how pilots don't know if they are upside down, etc. like when JFK, Jr. crashed. I've never understood why they can't tell. So please, someone, explain it to me! http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif

[BadMushroom]

OK.... not many takers on this topic (Dave, you are excepted). I guess you are all off elsewhere doing other stuff...

INFINITY... A pretty scary word/concept; but not to one of Necroscope abilities!!! Where is Möbius when you need him???

Here is my rational (I'm sure there are others, and contradictory ones too).

Imagine instead of "infinity" you have a quantity of Brian's books, "3" for example. This is a concept a little easier to handle! SO is 3 books + 1 book the same as 1 book + 3 books??? In conventional mathematics the answer "4 books" would be reached by simplifiying both equations, by adding them up; stacking them neatly in a pile...

Ok. Here comes the tricky part. Replace the "3 books" with "Infinite amount of books" (My reading list is long enough, but this is an equally scary/exciting idea!! if you could have such a thing, of course) - by definition a unending amount, a number without end.

1 book + an infinate amount of books = An infinate amount of books. The one book starts the pile of books, and now has an infinate amount of books stacked on top and so becomes a part of the infinity (sounds a bit like my bedroom)!!

But an infinate amount of books + 1 book cannot work as an equation. How can you add 1 to an infinate amount... answer; you cant!!

The best you can do is start a new stack of books consisting of 1, next to your infinate pile. But of course an infinate amount of books takes up an infinate amount of space, so you can't... So there!

The second equation, Infinity + 1 cannot be further simplified, and is therfore not equal to 1 + infinity.

Easy.

I have it on good authority that this theory works equally well for Brian Lumley shirts, Downliners Sect CDs and Autograph packages too (all of which are located in the STORE section of the website). http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/wink.gif

More to come. Happy riddling.

'Shroom.

[BadMushroom]

Sorry Nathan!!

Didn't see you there skulking in the corner http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif

Patience is a virtue... Such a shame I'm such a ratbag degenerate, huh! I've no dress sense either! Hee!

I'll leave the other one for a bit longer... Like the first, it's based on theory and principle, so the answer is not so black and white.


As repentance by way of compensation for pre-empting people with the "infinity riddle", here is another biggie (cosmically speaking)!!!


"What would happen if an immovable object was hit by an irresistible force"?


(Clue: the trick of my answer is in the question, semantically speaking)

Later,

'Shroom.

[DaveStrorm]

I think "skulking" is lurking or hiding, right? Oh wait, that's not the question I'm trying to answer . . . although it's the one I'm most likely to get right. http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif

I'm not good with semantics, but that riddle sounds a little like the "If God is omnipotent, can he/she make a stone so large that he/she couldn't lift it?" question. I'm staying away from this one.

And I'm still waiting on the pilot/plane answer. Someone needs to tell Harry to please come back and give us his reasoning!!!

[BadMushroom]

Fellow aspiring Necroscope mathematicians/philosophers:-

Dave:

As a clue to the "orange in a cup" conundrum, I have the following story to relate...

I went to the circus once, as a part of the entertainment, a clown ran around the Big-top ring with buckets of water. Putting the first bucket down, the clown relaxed his arm and hand (holding the second bucket), then started to swing it very quickly, round and round (like a hand whizzing round on a clock-face), and no water fell out of the bucket, even when it was upside down (at the zenith - the 12 o' clock position)!! Amazingly skilful display.
After the applause died down, he started to slow the whirling of his arm, and eventually the water fell from the bucket as he was spinning it, and drenched his costume, playing for the big laugh! The first bucket's contents were then thrown on the first and second rows of the audience, and surprise....,

*Confetti*!

SO, if the water's surface-plane stays parallel to the horizon with the tilting angle of the bucket, why did it stay in the bucket when the clown span his arm fast enough???


Nathan:

Cambridge Dictionary

skulk verb [I usually + adv/prep] to hide or move around as if trying not to be seen, usually with evil intentions... http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/wink.gif

Lord Redspawn:

Try removing god/goddess from the equation... Remember that, according to Möbius, God(dess) IS the equation. http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif A great debate point though. Can you create something you can't destroy??? Hmmmm.

I would turn that argument on it's head and ask 'is an act of destruction really so'. If you create chaos out of order (destroy), is that not an act of creation too?? Is there such a thing as uncreation/Annihilation?

Anyway, BIG BIG QUESTIONS which are way off the riddle. Remember, "simplify and rationalise" is the best way of explaining the seemingly imponderable.

What is actually mean by the question "What would happen if an immovable object was hit by an irresistible force"? What are the semantic implications? There lies my/the answer!!!

Heh (my brain hurts)!

'Shroom

[BadMushroom]

Nathan!!

A) Your answer to the third riddle is not wrong, but it is different to the answer I'm suggesting. Your statement about the intangibility of the object "force" is a neat way of side stepping the "crash-bang" effect of a tangible immovable object meeting with a tangible irresistible force, but is not what I had in mind (a great answer none the less).

That's why I deliberately used the word "hit".

All I'm saying is that my answer is a little more simplistic than that... but you are definitely on 'the right track'.

B) This riddle is a two-parter, one part practical, one part theoretical. Your answer seems to be broadly applied to both, so I'll have to say I think it needs revising.

C) A finer ‘skulker’ I never did see http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif

Later!

'Shroom

[DaveStrorm]

BM,

So, the orange juice thing has something to do with the so-called "centrifugal force"? I can barely understand what happens when you move in a straight line. I'll never get this one. http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif

[BadMushroom]

Dave:

"Centrifugal" was the word I wanted to hear in relation to the Orange in a cup riddle (big fat cigar for you!).

If it's any consolation, I had to check a few sources to figure the answer to this one...

Answer to part A:

No, in practice you cannot. Thinking back to the bucket half full of water the clown was spinning. If you tilt the bucket, sure enough, the surface of the water stays horizontal, at an angle to the bucket, and you can tell by that angle that the bucket is tilted. But that is not the situation when it is spun. The surface of the water in the bucket will stay parallel with the mouth of the bucket, at an angle to the horizontal. The centripetal acceleration is influencing the water as well as the bucket, and someone positioned within the bucket (I know this is not possible, but bare with me)looking at the water, will be none the wiser trying to determine whether the bucket is horizontal or not. This reasoning is directly applicable on the cup-of-orange-juice-in-the-plane situation.

Answer to part B:

b) Yes, in principle you can tell whether the plane is level, due to the tidal effect, but you would probably need a real wide-bodied plane (perhaps some 100m would suffice), and then replace the cup of orange juice with a swimming pool of orange juice!!

So Again Harry is correct in saying "no you cannot", due to the practicalities and set conditions.

'Shroom (plus some help)

[BadMushroom]

Ok, you've had long enough with my last riddle...

"What would happen if an immovable object was hit by an irresistible force"?

Answer = Nothing....... As the working premise is flawed.

A definition of an irresistible force, is that no object in the universe, however dense or heavy or well stabilized, can withstand the force. If such an object indeed does exist, then the force is by definition not irresistible. The definition of an immovable object, is that no force in the universe, however great, can move it. If such a force exists, then the object is by definition not immovable. Hence, an irresistible force and an immovable object cannot exist in the same universe, and consequently cannot meet.

I know it's a bit cheeky, but I did say that the answer was a semantic twister...

HEH!

'Shroom.

[Webhead]

You forgot the theoretical aspect that says that equal but opposite negate each other... a continuation of the "nothing" answer- a force equal to the counter force (the object)would negate each other out. The object cant be moved by the force and the force cannot move the object. (2+{-2}=0)

[This message has been edited by Webhead (edited October 24, 2000).]