Nathans Knowledge - Another series

[Dragutin]

Where did Nathan get the knowledge to go from sunside to earth? Harry Jr. was long gone and Harry Sr. did not have this knowledge to begin with, Mobius gone so no help there. A world full of dead travelers trogs and the desert dwellers (can't remember thier names). No maths to learn really.

When they ....Spoiler below this line only read if you have finished deadspawn and the Vampire Worlds.
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...died at the end of deadspawn did Harry & Jr.'s minds mix to send out the darts to impart the knowledge.

I think this would be a good story for BL to take on. Nathan to take Turgosheim and make it safe for those travelers.

What do you think?

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****** It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.******

[Emaleth]

Umm, ok now. Let me know if I read this wrong...

Dragutin:
Where did Nathan get the knowledge to go from sunside to earth?

Ok, Have you read the Vampire World series?? Nathan and the rest knew of the stories from Lardis for one, who knew Jazz & Zek personally. And from stories being told of the "Hell Lands Gate".

Harry Jr. was long gone and Harry Sr. did not have this knowledge to begin with,

?? Ok, if that is the case..still, the stories would have been passed down, they were 'Travelers' Gypsies, so they would always have their 'tales'. And if you are saying to have another story told, without both Harry's..then how was Nathan conceived?

Mobius gone so no help there.

Mobius was never in their world in the first place.

A world full of dead travelers trogs and the desert dwellers (can't remember thier names).

Yes Lord Shaithis The Thyre was the name of the desert dwellers. And Dragutin, do you mean to say that all Trogs and Thyre are dead? Or just the Trogs.

No maths to learn really.

He would know the basic, i.e., cannot remember off hand how he called it but the 5 count. Anyway, sorry, but I don't understand what type of a story you want.

And the darts I believe is the 'essence' of Harry, his soul so to speak. But that is my view :)

[Kalimari the Mindless]

To answer your question:

The first time Nathan came to Earth, you'll remember that he didn't exactly go of his own free will....he was thrown into the gate by Nestor's command.

As for times after that, Harry's dart found him in Harry's room, giving him his needed maths, and ability to use the continuum. Upon recieving Harry's second dart (which Nestor was keeping safe for him), he fully came into his (Harry's) powers, and just needed (Doc I think it was? I always get the wolf brothers mixed up) to show him the way to the doors between universes. He could then travel freely between worlds like Harry Jr.
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On a side note, this leads me to believe that Harry Snr. DID have the ability to use the continuum to go between worlds as The Dweller did, but he simply did not know the way. After all, none of the Dweller ever got into Nathan..it was all Harry. He just needed to be shown the way.
Harry was as good, better than Harry Jr. he just never really showed his full potential. So all you people who think Harry was not as powerful as his son can go jump off a warrior landing bay. http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif

But hey, that' just my opinion. http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Andrew the Sinister]

I'm adding to what to what Kamalri said:
Since a wolf (it was grinner) showed Nathan how to travel between universes did you ever think that it was the wolf part of Harry Jr. that taught him to travel between universes? Yes, I know that he was turned into a Dog-Lord after he went to Sunside/Starside but as we know he could travel back in time, so perhaps he went back to earth went back in time and showed his past self how to travel between universes.
I just confused my self.

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The Blood is the Life
To Live is to Lust

[Kalimari the Mindless]

Nice idea, Mr. Sinister, but for one thing. We all know that both Harry & Harry Jr. could travel through time. They just couldn't physically appear there.

Besides, to get the knowledge to go between worlds, he'd have to do it first..I don't think that's possible. http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/redface.gifP

A much liklier explanation, to my mind, is that being a baby, inqisitive as we know they are, Harry Jr. saw something that Harry and Mobius couldn''t...in the same way that kids can program VCRs and adults can't.

[Emaleth]

Ok Kalimari and Andrew, question answered about how Nathan knew, but my original question is still in the works...

Dragutin, what type of story are you looking for? It seems to me that Brian has done a hell of a job with the one that is already written, I still do not know what you are wanting. A story without the powers of the Mobius Continuum?? I guess what I am saying still is what I wrote earlier.

Oh and guys..I may be wrong, but when both Harry's 'died', I seem to remember in one of the books (forget which one..lol) that as little ones, Nathan & Nestor each receiving a dart a piece, albeit a small one.

Ema doing a fine job confusing herself on only one cup of Java :-|....

[Dragutin]

I was just thinking of another story line to fill us in on Nathan after the Vampire Worlds Series.

I have read everything published rearding the Necroscope Series all 11 books. I'm on my fifth reread. Sometimes my thoughts are implied and don't quite make it to the screen. I just don't want the series to end though I know it must some day.

Emaleth Let me elaborate. Invaders Nathan travels from sunside to our world to get weapons against the new Vamps. Harry Jr was the only one with this knowledge, Harry Sr. could do it if he knew the formulae, alas he didn't and couldn't it was there he just didn't know how. I was just asking how he could travel through the MC to our world without use of the gates.

?? Ok, if that is the case..still, the stories would have been passed down, they were 'Travelers' Gypsies, so they would always have their 'tales'. And if you are saying to have another story told, without both Harry's..then how was Nathan conceived?

But they would not have the Knowledge of how it was done.

Mobius was never in their world in the first place.

Nathan was in ours long after Mobius had gone. but if Mobius was available he could have helped nathan.

He would know the basic, i.e., cannot remember off hand how he called it but the 5 count. Anyway, sorry, but I don't understand what type of a story you want.

Just more of the WAMPHYRI Stories.

Kalimari the Mindless & Andrew the Sinister


The Brits taught Nathan the math so he could understand what was in his head. But noone but Harry Jr. knew how to go to parralel universes. First Dart at birth, the second dart from the computer.

As far as dweller being part of this dart was my explaination of how he could have gotten the formulae to travel. I am just about done with deadspawn and will start the lost years then onto the Vamp Worlds. I remeber something of grinner but not of his imparting knowledge. That could be the explaination I was looking for. Thanks Andrew

Kalamari Harry Jr did just that to get to an older version of himself in "The Source" Thats why he was 21 instead of eight when Father and son met. Mobius found those other parralell universes at the end of deadspawn. The coneshaped universes When Harry was arguing with Mobius.

Finally Emaleth, Yes BL has done wonders and i love his works that I have read, otherwise I would not be posting. I was brining another possible story line after this new series ends and possibly get some questions answered in the process.

Nathan & Nestor both recieved darts while babies but Nathan recieved another one in e-branch from the computer.

I hope this answers my line of thinking which isn't always clear and you have my apologies for that. my mind works faster than my keyboard and in so doing I tend to leave things out or take for granted people know what I'm talking about.

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****** It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.******

[Emaleth]

LOL, no problem..my mind tends to go faster than I can type also. Plus, I have yet to read Invaders, so I will be quiet now :)...

Thanks for elaborating though, I just didn't know what you were looking for.

[Kalimari the Mindless]

Sorry to tell you Dragutin, but as babies only Nestor got one of Harry's darts. He didn't get a dart until he was in Harry's room, and the other one was "inherited" from nestor.

As for the time travel, I'm sure that somewhere in the series it is explained how Harry Jr. went to the past. While he couldn't manifest himself in OUR past, due to possible continuity problems (such as if he were to kill harry, etc), there was nothing to stop him going into the past in a DIFFERENT universe, so he did just that. Can anyone verify this, or am I just imagining it. :)

Emaleth, hurry up and read Invaders, because you don't yet know my namessake Malinari...he's a great guy - get to know him. :)

[Emaleth]

LOL Kalimari, I'm trying as fast as I can.. *growls deeply at her SLOW bookstore* :-|...

Now watch me get it when Defilers comes out :-| Oh well...

[Dragutin]

It's been a few years and I've currently taken up rereading the series.

No need to be sorry if I need correcting by all means do so. One of the reasons I'm rereading the series is so I'll feel more at home here, but the big reason is because it's just a damn good series.

I researched the Source because a lot of it is still fresh and I know what area its in.

Harry Jr. 24
From the book 1.5 pages before Chapt 22 Harry Jr. Speaking "I took the Mobius Continuim itself and did to it what Felix Klien did to his bottle! That allowed me to break the time barrier and retain a physical identity, and come through to this place.

So he was able to break the time barrier into the future and come back much older but to a different universe like you said but that part is a little unclear.

I'm no math specialist so help me out Who is Felix Klien what is his bottle.



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****** It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.******

[Kalimari the Mindless]

Yes, Dragutin, but to me I think it sounded more like the twisting of the rules related more to the way he used the continuum to move between universes.
I think the big problem here was that since the two Harry's were much smarter than us stupid lot, they forgot to dumb it down for us http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/wink.gif

And I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that Felix Klien was another theortical mathmatician, much like Mobius, and he had some weird 4-dimensional bottle that he was famous for? But then he might have been one of Harrys mates down the pub who had a cool party trick involving a bottle for all I know.

[Dragutin]

Just finished Deadspawn and at the end Harry gets to wittness some of Harry Jrs. Formulae, he used it to open the door to perchorsk to call up the dead and send the nukes through.

See rereading does help.

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****** It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.******

[Rikus]

I was wondering if the dweller could materialize in the past on sunside/starside because he had no past self there. He would have to have a past self here on Earth 'cause he was born. So maybe he couldn't form in the past here because of that past self, and could over there with no past self. Make any sense to any one?

[Dragutin]

Kalimari, I have found a flaw in your memory as well as mine (we need upgrade to the 512 PC 133 MHZ)I'm on Blood Brothers right now, BL is a smooth one for he never stated who the dart went into only that it hovered and chose one. In part four it talks about how different nathan is and how he speaks to the wolves and hears the dead talking in thier graves.

Sorry bud but Nestor didn't get squat from Daddy.. other than what's physical.

But expanding on my original quest How about Nathan goes to turgoshiem and takes care of those Vamps. Hah another Trilogy.

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****** It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.******

[Emaleth]

<font color="770000">Heh heh Dragutin, I think you should wait until you finish the whole series before you say that about Nestor...of course I may be wrong too..LOL..but Blood Wars explains more on that too. In that one you will find out what parts of Harry went into both of the boys.

Heh heh..see? *Slaps self in the forehead and makes a note-to-self...Next time read all posts before posting* You are re-reading the series.. re-reading=already has read before..Oie™ Just disregard what I said..lol

Ema..the one who always befuddles...herself...</font color>

[This message has been edited by Emaleth (edited April 15, 2000).]

[Vasagi]

if you have finished reading blood wars you'll know where the critic is coming from.
Makes for an interesting twist don't it.
AS for seeing another vampire world series, i dont think it will ever happen but id loved to read it. The original VW series are my 3 fav books to date. Ive read them twice.
Turgoshiem would be a good place to start.

[Tonka]

Im definatly with Kalimari on this one.
Nestor was the baby that got the Dart, which Nathan then Inherited when Nestor Died.

this dart gave Nathan full "Awarness" of his powers.

even with this full awairness Nathan would not have been able to use the MC to get between univierses without the help of Grinner...

Im not sure if this means that Nathan can only move between his home world an Earth or weather he now has full access to loads of universes?.

[Dragutin]

Alas my memory is waning as my age is getting up there. You all were right. About half way through The Last Aerie it tells of Nestor necromancing a corpse and gets a vision of his youth when the Nukes went off, of going to his mothers bedside and asking if his dad died.

I thought since Nathan had the numbers vortex, the deadspeak and the mentalism that the dart went into him.

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****** It is better to be judged by 12 than to be carried by 6.******

[Tonka]

Sorry ^Regaene^ but the dart definatly went to Nestor as a child, when one of the children went to Nana in the night crying the story explains the system by which she can Identify which is which in the night, but does not actual tell you which child it was!.

then later when Nestor Died that dart then went to Nathan.

Changing track slightly.
to answer the question "could Harry Jnr" have given out a dart to nathan to give him the extended knowledge of the MC and travel between worlds. the reason for this is explained in Necroscope 5.

Spoiler if you havn't read that book!.

Harry Jnr was decapitated by one of the Vampires (Shaitan/Shaithis?) when he walked into the camp to help Harry and Karen. this is where Harry Jnr Died. Harry Snr However didn't die at that camp or in the Nuke blast, he was taken into the MC by ??? God ??? and fromt there he was split up into the splinters so his essence could help literaly hundreds of other people!. his body then went back in time to the swap where shaitan gets infected by that body.

I think I overboard there a bit http://www.brianlumley.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Goth Girl]

(WARNING! Spoilers!)

I'm with Tonka on this one... I read these three books very recently, and it's when Nathan is 'deadspeaking' to Jasef. Nathan assumed he got the dart as an infant, but Jasef corrects him, and tells him it was Nestor. That's why Nathan struggled at first learning Maths... he lacked the 'instinct' that Nestor had, though he did later gain it after Nestor's death

[This message has been edited by Goth Girl (edited May 04, 2000).]

[Pybob]

<font color=440066>When the Necs started, Harry's powers were inherited from his mother... but I can't remember - did he recieve one of his own darts?

If he didn't, then it tells us the blood sons... true sons, are the strongest, are the owners of a True Power...

What do you think?</font>

[Patrick]

The way I see it is the same as Goth Girl. In the 3rd VW series, near the end, Nathan deadspeaks with Jasef who informs that the dart entered the head of the child with the dark hair,ie. Nestor, not Nathans little blond head.

They then realise that as Harry was Wamphyri at the time of his death, it could explain Nestors lifelong obsession with and becoming Wamphyri himself.

As for Nathan, he was obviously born with the essence of Harry,(essence being the numbers vortex)but it wasnt actually triggered until he was faced with certain death when he and Zek were attacked on the beach and in the Aegean sea(I think) in Zante. While this was going on, back at E-branch, the golden dart came from the computer in Harrys room and sought out Nathan. I suppose it was either do or die for Nathan, just like Harry in the graveyard in Lipzieg when he finally discovered the Mobius Continuum.