Mobius Questions

[Vasagi]

I've been giving some thought to the mechanics of some of the most troublesome elements a Necroscope game might attempt (psionics mostly), but before bringing them up, I thought it best to get a better idea of Mobius' general approach. These questions are directed at the developers but anyone's comments are welcome.

1) What current or past titles would the Necroscope game be most like? Looking at movies of Titanium Angels it seems to be very much like Oni or Tomb Raider albeit more graphicly sophisticated. Are you taking the full on action approach or going for more of a mood piece like the Nocturne/Blair Witch games? Or perhaps Resident Evil which I'd say is a successful blend of both?

2) If the player has a choice of characters to play, as I believe was said last week, then does she use just one at a time, playing the whole game through with just that character, or is the idea to switch between members of a party whenever neccessary -- the Japanese RPG approach?

3) Will these be entirely new characters operating out of one of the E-Branch sub-offices?

4) Can the player employ psionic abilities? At will? Do they use up psychic energy that she has to recharge somehow?

[ShadoeWolfe]

The psionics ability is a good idea - sort of like the 'special talent' each player would have. As the game progress and you use your talent, your skill in that talent would increase, as well as your normal vampire killing with a stake and flamethrower would too, as the game progresses.

This could prove problematic though if Necroscope is classified as an ability. That person could most likely be unstoppable as gathering other's talents is one of it's abilities....hmmmmm. Just my thoughts at the moment....

Another question to add though is what sort of game plying style will it be? Linear or more open? Will one event always follow the same path and lead to a predetermined conclusion, or will your actions and decisions determine the outcome? Also - along those lines - is there an outcome? Can you "win" the game or is it never-ending? Damn Pote - you got me thinking now!...got to get back to work....

[Alex]

Nice topic, I haven't been on the site in a while as the computer at home is a bit slow. And now it's a new sort of site as well.
Games wise, the concept art did seem to have a lot of Vampires from the source world rather than Earth, so it might well be stack wars. Well, i'd like that one, you could customise warrors and other creatures! as well act just like a Lord or Lady. Maybe with recuiting raids, etc...
Otherwise, the RPG might be good, I'm not one of those types of people though. But I might still buy it if it was just for something different.
Do like the psionics idea, a way to cure the problem of collecting abilities if you are a Necroscope would be to make it more exaustive, or make them only carry one ability more at a time. There probably are other ways too.
Either way I can't wait until it's out! smile.gif

[AlvinFox]

It may just be me but I'd see a Necroscope game as a kind of Parasite Eve type game. In PE you're able to move your character around in battle sequences to dodge enemy attacks and you also have a kind of psionic power that lets you heal yourself and cause damage to enemies.

[Psykhopaf]

Thinking about the abilities....

Telepathy.
Meeting a certain enemy the telepathy can give away a few clues on where to go next... I was chatting to Ian about this smile.gif

Necromancy.
Rasie one dead enemy to fight for you...

Evil Eye.
Well a bit like the Max Batu thing ... Kill one enemy instantly.

Locator.
Well locate an object you need for the game.

Metomorphism.
Change into the apperance of the enemy for a limitied period.

Six Sense.
Aware of enemies in a certain range.

Guardian Angel.
Protects you from "X" amount of damage.

Thats me for now :D

[SpOOkshow]

Can anyone say 'multiplayer' ?

I think I'm veering slightly off Pote's original topic here...so apols for that.

Everyone knows how important online modes are in today's games. Not the traditional Deathmatch - but co-operative, team games.

Fancy being member of an E-Branch group facing online Wamphyri hordes? I do...

Whilst I'm thinking - can anyone say Necroscope MMORPG?
smile.gif

[ShadoeWolfe]

"Necroscope MMORPG"

Ha! I said it. :D

Seriously, I think the idea of a multiplayer game would be excellent. Actually, if it could be played either way would be the best. Single player, the game AI runs the rest of the characters or multiplayer, however many people you have can each use a character. Could make it more comlicated, but also more fun...Keep those suggestions flowing....

[Psykhopaf]

Has anyone any news regarding the game?

[ShadoeWolfe]

Twas curious... with the presentation coming up.... might we all see some advance screenshots perhaps? smile.gif if we beg...?

And any thoughts on what the gameplay may resemble....?

[Spike]

Being a lurker for so long i couldnt help wonder.... What format will "The Game" be on?

Talking to my friends i have heard many different stories. And i just hope it isn't a point and click adventure. I hope the game has the chance to become wamphyri. (the way DF2: jedi knights had jedi or sith choices) that would be good smile.gif Which would show the perils of working for E-Branch.

[BadMushroom]

Yeah, I liked the way that the DF2 game handled the idea of Force Powers. I'm sure something similar could be adapted (ideas-wise) to work equally well for psionic abilities...

A great point about the choices you make with regards to abilities defining the character you play. A choice between good and evil... Necroscope or Necromancer. Perhaps the abilities you choose could define whether you are recruited by E-Branch or 'made' a lieutenant.

I'd love to see how games developers would handle "Precog" ability... Unless they showed you the end of the game before you started playing... heh!

On a more serious note, the idea of a multi-player team of E-Branch agents (all with differing/complimenting psychic abilities) going into a deserted locale to flush out entrenched Wamphyri.... shudder! Or even, lying in wait while the hapless human come closer...., closer...!

"I'd buy that for a dollar"!

On the subject of game scripting, I'd like to see a more open environment. I hate those games where you feel like you are just "riding the rails". I guess to a certain extent, it's a trade-off between set-pieces (which are important when you attempt to set the mood in a cinematic sense) and the freedom to explore and make your own decisions/take your own chances... I think there is a happy medium to strike (something similar to "Thief: The Dark Project", where there were numerous ways in which objectives could be achieved, and set-pieces were woven around the objectives, as opposed to the locales themselves).

There's my two pence worth. :D

[Spike]

ive been rereading the posts of this topic and came up with a few more ideas...

Precog - Shows CGI cut scene of what the next boss is doing after taking down an Aerie or another wamphyri. Or part of a cut scene giving confusing glimpses of the future.

Necromancer- Gain energy/clues/skills of dead opponent. fun for multiplayer. instead of grabbing their weapon why not grab their skill instead? :D

Lie detector- This is a hard one, but maybe it would allow you to know if the is a trap in a certain room, or if an in-game character is holding some details back.

Maybe the multiplayer game could be like a mix of QIII and any of the halflife games.

<FONT COLOR="#660000" SIZE="1">[ 10-08-2001 08:54 PM: Message edited 1 time, lastly by Spawn ]</font>

[SpOOkshow]

Psychic abilities in a game are tricky. I'd almost go as far as to say that the Precog ability was perhaps too much of an imbalancing factor for the main character of a game to possess. Feels more like the kind of ability that a non-player character might have - the sort of chap who gives you vague warnings about the kind of Things you are about to face.

I'll be interested to see how it turns out smile.gif

As for a Wish List of how the game might eventually evolve:

Mr 'Shroom's example of 'Thief' is good - a very fine game in it's own right - but I'd point to a slightly more recent title, in the gargantuan shoes of 'Deus Ex'. It's approach to problems was about as open ended as is physically possible! It was also an excellent mix of role-playing, with character advancement, and good ol' FPS.

[BadMushroom]

Ahhhhhhhh 'Deus Ex'.

How did I forget about that one? An excellent example. More good lessons to learned from "System Shock 2"... It managed to combine psychic abilities and FPS quite successfully. I even managed to play it multi-player, and it worked VERY well. Something similar to what I'd like to see (without the technological theme of course). 'Psychomech' game for development, anyone? ;)

I guess there are many ways to accomplish the same task. The only thing that I would demand is that is authentic: If it isn't entirely in keeping with the vision and the writings of Mr Lumley, then I'm not interested. I think this is the biggest challenge that the developers face...

[ShadoeWolfe]

Ok - time to bump this topic up on the list.

Platforms anyone? smile.gif Can we hope or expect - or better yet, hope to expect - the Necroscope Game to ever reach the PC, or will it only reside on the consoles?

[gordonh]

Hi All,
In responce to the above question - to pc or not to pc...

I'm going over to an American publisher next week (should have been this week but.. best laid plans an all) Anyway, this Publisher is a firm backer of the PC format (Arghh!) so, you never know...

One thing is for certain, when we start developing the Whamphryi Blood Wars(temp name) multiplayer online game it will focus mainly on the PC with the addition of the XBox...

[Lagula Longarm]

Im sorry, I'm going off the thread, slightly....but Ive just seen Gordon's favourite Lumley quote smile.gif :D I haven't laughed so much since I read my ex-wifes reason's for divorce....Classic Gord M8 smile.gif

[BadMushroom]

Excellent Gordon!!

I was thinking of making mine what was said to you, Deano, when you thought about putting your second 'Deadspeak' raffle prize back in the pool!!!

But then again, this is a family website ;)

I would love to see these titles on the PC, but I understand the difficulties involved. From a purely selfish POV, I don't own a console, so I wont get to play your first game if the PC version doesn't materialise.

I'm praying that your American publisher throws so much money at you that you CANT say no! heh.

Keep us updated as much as you dare Gordon, and thanks for the info so far.

'Shroom.

[VonDarkmoor]

back on topic.

im sure that if the game comes out on xbox (console) then a PC version will be extremely likely.

From the recent demo, heres a few thoughts on the current 3rd person perspective demo.

some of my ideas if the games going on the console, would be to adopt a similar style of play as in resident evil2. where what u do in your current game has effect on other characters. for example take this scenario:

the ebranch esper is investigating an occurrence in a graveyard, prior to starting out he equips with crossbow, flame thrower shotgun (for example, complete overkill) then goes to investigate. when he arrives at the site he is assisted by computer controlled ebranch coleague not armed with a weapon.

the game dynamics could work:

since u have already taken all the weapons from the armoury, a subsequent return to the armoury would show these weapons taken already. You can swap weapons to colleagues etc as required. Now assuming that your colleague is taken by a creature in graveyard whilst hes using the flame thrower. this weapon is now unavailable to you for the rest of the forseable future. This would prevent the game from becoming a mindless shooting game and force the individual to consider the importance of "cause and affect".

continuing on the similar theme, you reach a subsequent stage in the game where you play a different character to investigate the occurrence in the "nightmare zone". Considering the previous statements, some of the weapons that were all used by a previous colleagues are now not available for the current assignment nor neither is the assistance of the colleague as he has already perished. This repeats the cause and effect system, and the player in penalised as such for using a "gun-ho" tactic earlier.

a similar system could be employed for artifacts that could be found and used. I think an ideal system would be to ensure repeat playability would be random placing of artifacts and encounters. This would prevent the player from perhaps "beefing up" with the correct weapons knowing the likely foe. Even better would be an option to select either player A or B (akin to resident evil2) play the game and on completion with A it allows an extra version unlock. where you get to play the player B scenario but with player A, but the "cause and affect" system is in play which takes into account what you have already done. i.e. excessive abuse of weapons in the first scenario would lead to lack of weapons being available in the 2nd scenario. or destroying a certain area would mean that u cant access it later on.

This could perhaps enrichen the plot further by having cross over between scenarios etc. given the fact that the game is not resource orientated as such, this would deliberately force the player to consider what they do much more than just visit A, find item A, kill monster A, etc. i.e. u kill a thrall on sight, thus removing the possibility of him providing you with information. subsequent lack of information means you cant unlock a certain area etc.

blimey ive written too much already.

[gordonh]

Great thread Darkmoor,

I'm really looking for Necroscope1 to reflect a kind of Keogh mentality. I'd love the battles to be infrequent but intense...
Conservatively, Necroscope the game will have occupied 2.5 years of my life when it ships, I really want it to reflect some of my values; To this end I'd love the player to throw down arms & transend to a more ceribral level of gameplay. Just for the record, If ya want to shoot the s*** out of everything then be my guest, I'll play the game like that when the mood takes me. I just hope I can pull off giving the player so much more than a Max Payne rip off if you know what I mean ;)
As for non linear gameplay... Heres an example of what I'd like to see in the title - Bare in mind that if i post an idea to this site it won't apear in the game - that would not be fare to you guys. The theme of the idea is what i'm expressing. Anyway, here goes...

You are posted to another country to investigate vampire shinanigans, You set your self up in your room, your briefcase lies open on a table. You can examine & use the contents within your briefcase as you see fit. If you close the briefcase you will get the chance to hide it in the room. You will be presented with places like the top of the wardrobe, under the bed etc. BUT - if you first examined the room carefully first you would find an air conditioning duct in the wall, you could then have poped off the facia of the duct and hid your briefcase in there. So... Three possible scenarios...

1)I didn't hide the briefcase
2)I did a shoddy job of hiding the briefcase
3)I paid close attention to my documents safety in hiding my briefcase with care...

Let's say in the story I send in member of the opposition to look for information in your room. This would result in one of three outcomes...
1) the player would not know his place had even been searched
2) the place was ransacked, his briefcase was obviously found
3) the place was ransacked, his briefcase is still safe

If his briefcase contained information leading to his contact man in the country he was in this could lead to these actual outcomes:-

1)the operative is killed without your knowledge
2)You know he is compromised, you get a chance to save him
3)It's safe but you now know your room is forsaken.

This post is huge now, but you get my drift...

[VonDarkmoor]

Gordon, i totally agree, sometimes in games guns are fun, but choosing the "gun path" i.e blowing up a vehicle leads to a limitation later on. Such as being chased by hell hounds and running out of ammo (which u need later), as you cant use the car and have to stick to the streets.. if u know what i mean...

if i want to discharge the brass then i stick to games that have the high octane speed and guns like quake3. where as in a moody, atmosperic dark game i like to use my brain a bit more. i think that if a deus ex type theme popped up i would be too alarmed. But if a "from dusk to dawn" type game cropped up i would be rather dissapointed, which being based on a loose vampire genre doesnt work.

Thanks for that examples, its just the kind of thing i was trying to say in my previous posting. i get your drift..

[VonDarkmoor]

Playability, controls and cameras….

Having been a fan of the Horror survival genre, right back to the days of the first ‘alone in dark’ and through the era of ‘resident evil’ to present. It certainly got me thinking about what makes a game ultimately successful and playable. After recently playing a new PS2 title demo of ‘Devil may cry’, I suddenly realised. The most important factor that makes the player of a game feel like they are there is the control that they are able to exert over the in game character. Whilst I appreciate that atmospheric music, tight camera actions, darkness / fog and scary environments may heighten the level of anxiety and tension, it not worth a damn if your character controls like a dodgy old sainsbury’s trolley. This got me thinking about what I would like to see in the necroscope game.

I think long gone are the days of an in game character being routed to the spot being able to turn 360* whilst ice skating feet slip on the ground. I think the availability of motion capture as hopefully seen the end of this. A character must be able to sidestep and perform dodges, akin to the lara croft character of tomb raider, possibly precision control on slow movement my be a necessity? But the fundamentals of being able to run, jump and roll in out of movements whilst firing weapons are what I see as essential. My biggest gripe with 3rd persons games (resident evil for example) is the need to issue an action to climb / descend stairs etc. what a joy it would be to be able to seamlessly move from the transition of level ground to raised ground without this hassle.

As I said earlier camera angles are important, as with movies they create the tension, placing the character in a situation, showing what a director wants them to see, for example a sneak look around a corner to show a snoozing guard (as in metal gear), or a glint of a key behind a glass partition in another room. Certain games carry this off very well and tension and atmosphere is created. But what happens when the camera angle locked to the character doesn’t show enough depth during a combat situation. Then your always either firing at enemies off screen or manouvering near them to get them in view, which more than often places you too near and gets you killed. If the player is able to control the camera angles or perform some kind of zoom out view during combat to capture a full view of an area it would be a great benefit. In my opinion there’s nothing more annoying than firing at an off screen enemy and not being able to (a) ensure you hit them (b) know if they are still require you to kill them (c) have the satisfaction of seeing the affect of emptying you gun at them, i.e. recoil of enemy etc.

Having seen the demo at the con, it looked to me like most of the above was being considered, but ultimately there are a lot of 3rd person survival games on the market and the last thing I would want to see is the necro game having a limitation caused by hampering game controls from games 5 years old. It would appear that certainly on the PS2 ‘devil may cry’ has pushed the level of expectation for survival horror considerably higher, not only in the graphics market (with its huge levels and beautifully sculpted environment) but with what I could consider the ultimate in control methods, using combos for movements and also combat events. What with the ps2 controller now having 4 normal action buttons, 6 extra function buttons and 3 analogue direction controllers, there’s certainly plenty of scope to keep those fingers nimble…

Enough ramble for now….